I had to become a subscriber because I have so many thoughts! Side question: How many media podcasts do you need to subscribe to before you get a casual Media Studies PhD?
Re: Wicked vs Gladiator 2, I really hope you do a follow-up bonus ep cause it’s fascinating how they compare: Both are based on IP from 20 years ago, both invested heavily in physical effects and sets (tho I hear Gladiator still had some cringe CG), both are selling big spectacle, both have political messages, and they could have pulled off another Barbenheimer theater-going effect. But it seems Wicked is the certifiable Blockbuster while Gladiator didn’t quite make it. I don’t know if this was due to marketing (though I personally was more invested in Gladiator marketing cause Paul Mescal and Pedro Pascal) or it just comes down to what fans want: fans wanted a Wicked movie but I don’t think anyone was calling for Gladiator II. Seems like a good case study for this podcast episode!
Also re: seeing movies in the theater. I am someone who regularly goes to the theater alone to see indie dramas because I know I won’t watch them at home. For me, home viewing is for comfort while the theater is for art. At least that’s how I trained my attention. That said, I saw Wicked in a packed theater and I was so annoyed by the audience. They kept coming and going and the teens in front of me kept dropping their phones. I feel like it kept me from having the emotional experience I wanted to have. Or I recently saw Conclave in the theater and someone literally yelled “Hollywood” at a big reveal, which felt both inappropriate and appropriate for the melodramatic tone of the movie. All to say, it’s a total mixed bag of popcorn and m&ms.
I love how you put it, that theater is for art. A couple of years ago I became a member of my city's art house theater because I wanted to start watching better films and was only watching "fun" stuff at home. My attention span is faulty in my living room but totally fine in a theater! If you live near an Alamo Drafthouse, I totally recommend them for the blockbusters for their no texting/no talking policy. The art house audiences are very polite, but regular theaters otherwise are too distracting/maddening for me, too. I audibly shushed someone the last time I was in one. (It worked for about 15 minutes.)
You had me at Hannah McGregor! Excited to listen ☺️ I went to see Wicked this week and all the trailers were for sequels and adaptations, to a point that was almost comical - Mufasa, Moana 2, How to Train Your Dragon live action...
Is this my favorite Culture Study podcast episode ever? Yes. Was the first blockbuster I remember seeing in the theater Amadeus? Yes. Does Amadeus even count as a blockbuster? Don't answer that, it was big to me as I was 4 years old (my mom really wanted to see it and not pay a babysitter). I could go on and on about my love of the movies, and I long for the days of $2 matinees.
We saw Gladiator over the weekend, and it was fabulous. I kept hearing about the glory that is Paul Mescal and now I get it. And of course we saw it in the theater to revel in the bigness of it all and enjoy the collective gasps, groans, and (rare) laughter of the audience. I'm not sure how well it will do - the marketing did not do the movie justice. My 3 teenagers agreed it was much better than they expected it to be. Movie marketing has become a red flag for me these days: the more there is, the worse I think the movie will be. Wonder how we'll feel about Wicked...that one's next.
We were not a VHS-collecting household, but I had a bunch of McDonald’s movies too! Wayne’s World and The Addams Family are the ones that come to mind - still two of my favorite movies!
You have me convinced I need to see Gladiator in the cinema this weekend. I have been an admirer of Paul Mescal since Normal People and it has nothing to do with short rugby shorts! Although I don’t hate them ;) Fantastic podcast episode this week, as an elder millennial I really enjoyed this discussion with Hannah and the shared blockbuster experience of Jurassic Park. I have no idea what a picture palace is but it sounds like an enchanting venue for watching movies. We had a small, independent, art deco, single screen movie theatre in my small Canadian town and I feel lucky to have had it just down the street. My dad took me there to see ET when I was 2 and apparently I screamed nearly the whole time. I went back to that cinema with him in 2017 for the last time and held his hand as he fell asleep watching Guardians of the Galaxy (with not movie star Chris Pratt) just 2 weeks before his death from pancreatic cancer. Gosh I’m getting emotional about my ties to my home town and that little movie theatre. Anyway. Andrew Scott has a gentle message for you about Paul: https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewscottclips/video/7302085448799702305
I love this episode (and them all!). The only thing I want to add is that disability experience also adds something important to the conversation about what kind of venue is possible for people to participate in a movie night. I have a TBI, and I simply can’t go to a movie theater anymore because the lights are too bright and the sound is too loud. I have more control over my sensory experience at home, and I can take breaks if I need to.
When we think about going to see blockbusters (or films in general), we often think about the soundtrack (or at least, I do), but I saw a really interesting film called Wonderstruck in 2017. Part of the film is set during the 1920s and is about a deaf girl who loves going to the cinema, but as the advent of talking films begin, she loses her cinema experience. I don't think that ties directly to the blockbuster discussion but I find it interesting, as we often consider earlier media to be less inclusive.
I stopped going to the theatre when they starting playing 20 minutes of ads before the show! So annoying to pay big bucks to watch ads. If I do go, I'll pay the upgraded cost for the fancy theatre with Lazy-Boy type seats, and alcohol service. If a movie is 3 hours long, there's no way I want to sit in a cramped seat when I could have my sofa and easy access bathroom at home :)
The ads are truly wild — and turn what you think is going to be a 2 hour experience into a 2 hour 40 minute one (this is important info for me because I have ferries to catch!). But the wonderful local indie *absolutely does not do this,* another reason they're the best.
I didn't used to like movies but my husband loves them so I've sort of been forced into a Film Studies class. I'm surprised at how much I enjoy the theater experience now. We go about once a week which is a LOT for me, and often we are among maybe 5 people in the theater. Sometimes it's just us. So I actually really enjoy when a theater is full instead of getting annoyed by people who have forgotten how to go to the movies. It's really nice when there's a group of folks who are really engaged together in the theater. Especially when they're laughing together or reacting to a surprise.
A mildly hot take I have about the Marvel movies, having had to watch all of them closely over and over for my job (in the interest of transparency I do work for Disney), is that the professional critical class actually has become a LITTLE unfair to them — or even when not quite unfair, sometimes responding to the MCU 5-10 years ago rather than to whatever's coming out in the moment, or otherwise missing what actually should be criticized — but that it still feels somehow wrong to insist that detractors be more generous or take them more seriously, because so much of the fan base is toxic and so much intra-fandom ~discourse~ is annoying. And though I know this isn't a uniquely Marvel problem, I wonder how much a lack of such baggage affects (or doesn't) the reception of, and long-term consensus about, other recent blockbusters, teen boy-skewing or otherwise. I would probably consider, say, Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings a "better" movie than Gladiator II by most criteria that it would be fair to judge both by, but I find it hard to imagine a critic at any publication starting with "New York" saying so, AND I can't blame them given what their comment sections and social media notifications probably look like.
I feel like such a curmudgeon these days when I say “they just don’t make good movies anymore!!” but that’s kinda how I feel. I just rewatched the original Gladiator in preparation for the new one, and I was reminded of how PERFECT it is. I love that movie SO much and was actually pissed when they announced the remake, because NO ONE ASKED FOR IT!! As a big LOTR fan I will never forget the heartbreak of being soooo excited to see the Hobbit (part 1 lol) just for it to be so horrible that I never bothered seeing parts 2 & 3. I will still go see Gladiator 2, but with expectations low enough that they can only be exceeded!
Could you put a link to the ticket graph? I’m really curious about the dip in 1986! Also would love to see more data on the six years after this one ends - given the state of the post-pandemic discourse we’re having, it must’ve cratered precipitously since.
Seeing movies in theaters has always been one of my favorite ways to spend time, and I'd regularly see 40+ a year. But shortly before covid and just after, all the nearby movie theaters closed. The owner of one longtime indie theater retired and didn't want to sell, a chain multiplex a few minutes away shut down before being demolished for a new development (that never happened), and an Alamo Drafthouse right by my work closed in early covid after a long run of mismanagement/staff harassment/plumbing problems. All three were within 5 minutes of my home or work. Now my best bet is a 15+ minute drive, and that just doesn't happen as often. And what's become clear in the absence of these theaters is that I just don't like watching movies at home, and especially don't like watching at home alone, for various attention span reasons. And god, I miss seeing all these movies.
Apologies if it’s above and I just can’t find it, but can someone link me to the article about Mattel/Barbie/IP Anne mentioned? I’m currently teaching the Barbie film in my IB English class and that article sounds like a great secondary source.
I had to become a subscriber because I have so many thoughts! Side question: How many media podcasts do you need to subscribe to before you get a casual Media Studies PhD?
Re: Wicked vs Gladiator 2, I really hope you do a follow-up bonus ep cause it’s fascinating how they compare: Both are based on IP from 20 years ago, both invested heavily in physical effects and sets (tho I hear Gladiator still had some cringe CG), both are selling big spectacle, both have political messages, and they could have pulled off another Barbenheimer theater-going effect. But it seems Wicked is the certifiable Blockbuster while Gladiator didn’t quite make it. I don’t know if this was due to marketing (though I personally was more invested in Gladiator marketing cause Paul Mescal and Pedro Pascal) or it just comes down to what fans want: fans wanted a Wicked movie but I don’t think anyone was calling for Gladiator II. Seems like a good case study for this podcast episode!
Also re: seeing movies in the theater. I am someone who regularly goes to the theater alone to see indie dramas because I know I won’t watch them at home. For me, home viewing is for comfort while the theater is for art. At least that’s how I trained my attention. That said, I saw Wicked in a packed theater and I was so annoyed by the audience. They kept coming and going and the teens in front of me kept dropping their phones. I feel like it kept me from having the emotional experience I wanted to have. Or I recently saw Conclave in the theater and someone literally yelled “Hollywood” at a big reveal, which felt both inappropriate and appropriate for the melodramatic tone of the movie. All to say, it’s a total mixed bag of popcorn and m&ms.
By the power vested in me, I GRANT YOU A CASUAL MEDIA STUDIES PHD!!!!
I love how you put it, that theater is for art. A couple of years ago I became a member of my city's art house theater because I wanted to start watching better films and was only watching "fun" stuff at home. My attention span is faulty in my living room but totally fine in a theater! If you live near an Alamo Drafthouse, I totally recommend them for the blockbusters for their no texting/no talking policy. The art house audiences are very polite, but regular theaters otherwise are too distracting/maddening for me, too. I audibly shushed someone the last time I was in one. (It worked for about 15 minutes.)
Our Alamo Drafthouse closed during the pandemic and I'll never get over it. The perfect experience!!
You had me at Hannah McGregor! Excited to listen ☺️ I went to see Wicked this week and all the trailers were for sequels and adaptations, to a point that was almost comical - Mufasa, Moana 2, How to Train Your Dragon live action...
Same!! I literally leaned over to my husband and was like ALL PRE-EXISTING IP!!!!
Same! The best crossover!
Is this my favorite Culture Study podcast episode ever? Yes. Was the first blockbuster I remember seeing in the theater Amadeus? Yes. Does Amadeus even count as a blockbuster? Don't answer that, it was big to me as I was 4 years old (my mom really wanted to see it and not pay a babysitter). I could go on and on about my love of the movies, and I long for the days of $2 matinees.
We saw Gladiator over the weekend, and it was fabulous. I kept hearing about the glory that is Paul Mescal and now I get it. And of course we saw it in the theater to revel in the bigness of it all and enjoy the collective gasps, groans, and (rare) laughter of the audience. I'm not sure how well it will do - the marketing did not do the movie justice. My 3 teenagers agreed it was much better than they expected it to be. Movie marketing has become a red flag for me these days: the more there is, the worse I think the movie will be. Wonder how we'll feel about Wicked...that one's next.
So glad you can join me in understanding the glory of Paul Mescal since Melody is such a nay-sayer!!
I'm not a NAY sayer, I'm an I Don't Get It Sayer
I'm with you Melody. He is lost on me, as is his mohwak.
We were not a VHS-collecting household, but I had a bunch of McDonald’s movies too! Wayne’s World and The Addams Family are the ones that come to mind - still two of my favorite movies!
You have me convinced I need to see Gladiator in the cinema this weekend. I have been an admirer of Paul Mescal since Normal People and it has nothing to do with short rugby shorts! Although I don’t hate them ;) Fantastic podcast episode this week, as an elder millennial I really enjoyed this discussion with Hannah and the shared blockbuster experience of Jurassic Park. I have no idea what a picture palace is but it sounds like an enchanting venue for watching movies. We had a small, independent, art deco, single screen movie theatre in my small Canadian town and I feel lucky to have had it just down the street. My dad took me there to see ET when I was 2 and apparently I screamed nearly the whole time. I went back to that cinema with him in 2017 for the last time and held his hand as he fell asleep watching Guardians of the Galaxy (with not movie star Chris Pratt) just 2 weeks before his death from pancreatic cancer. Gosh I’m getting emotional about my ties to my home town and that little movie theatre. Anyway. Andrew Scott has a gentle message for you about Paul: https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewscottclips/video/7302085448799702305
I love this episode (and them all!). The only thing I want to add is that disability experience also adds something important to the conversation about what kind of venue is possible for people to participate in a movie night. I have a TBI, and I simply can’t go to a movie theater anymore because the lights are too bright and the sound is too loud. I have more control over my sensory experience at home, and I can take breaks if I need to.
When we think about going to see blockbusters (or films in general), we often think about the soundtrack (or at least, I do), but I saw a really interesting film called Wonderstruck in 2017. Part of the film is set during the 1920s and is about a deaf girl who loves going to the cinema, but as the advent of talking films begin, she loses her cinema experience. I don't think that ties directly to the blockbuster discussion but I find it interesting, as we often consider earlier media to be less inclusive.
I stopped going to the theatre when they starting playing 20 minutes of ads before the show! So annoying to pay big bucks to watch ads. If I do go, I'll pay the upgraded cost for the fancy theatre with Lazy-Boy type seats, and alcohol service. If a movie is 3 hours long, there's no way I want to sit in a cramped seat when I could have my sofa and easy access bathroom at home :)
The ads are truly wild — and turn what you think is going to be a 2 hour experience into a 2 hour 40 minute one (this is important info for me because I have ferries to catch!). But the wonderful local indie *absolutely does not do this,* another reason they're the best.
Yeah I’d almost pay a premium for no ads, no previews
I didn't used to like movies but my husband loves them so I've sort of been forced into a Film Studies class. I'm surprised at how much I enjoy the theater experience now. We go about once a week which is a LOT for me, and often we are among maybe 5 people in the theater. Sometimes it's just us. So I actually really enjoy when a theater is full instead of getting annoyed by people who have forgotten how to go to the movies. It's really nice when there's a group of folks who are really engaged together in the theater. Especially when they're laughing together or reacting to a surprise.
A mildly hot take I have about the Marvel movies, having had to watch all of them closely over and over for my job (in the interest of transparency I do work for Disney), is that the professional critical class actually has become a LITTLE unfair to them — or even when not quite unfair, sometimes responding to the MCU 5-10 years ago rather than to whatever's coming out in the moment, or otherwise missing what actually should be criticized — but that it still feels somehow wrong to insist that detractors be more generous or take them more seriously, because so much of the fan base is toxic and so much intra-fandom ~discourse~ is annoying. And though I know this isn't a uniquely Marvel problem, I wonder how much a lack of such baggage affects (or doesn't) the reception of, and long-term consensus about, other recent blockbusters, teen boy-skewing or otherwise. I would probably consider, say, Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings a "better" movie than Gladiator II by most criteria that it would be fair to judge both by, but I find it hard to imagine a critic at any publication starting with "New York" saying so, AND I can't blame them given what their comment sections and social media notifications probably look like.
I feel like such a curmudgeon these days when I say “they just don’t make good movies anymore!!” but that’s kinda how I feel. I just rewatched the original Gladiator in preparation for the new one, and I was reminded of how PERFECT it is. I love that movie SO much and was actually pissed when they announced the remake, because NO ONE ASKED FOR IT!! As a big LOTR fan I will never forget the heartbreak of being soooo excited to see the Hobbit (part 1 lol) just for it to be so horrible that I never bothered seeing parts 2 & 3. I will still go see Gladiator 2, but with expectations low enough that they can only be exceeded!
Could you put a link to the ticket graph? I’m really curious about the dip in 1986! Also would love to see more data on the six years after this one ends - given the state of the post-pandemic discourse we’re having, it must’ve cratered precipitously since.
Seeing movies in theaters has always been one of my favorite ways to spend time, and I'd regularly see 40+ a year. But shortly before covid and just after, all the nearby movie theaters closed. The owner of one longtime indie theater retired and didn't want to sell, a chain multiplex a few minutes away shut down before being demolished for a new development (that never happened), and an Alamo Drafthouse right by my work closed in early covid after a long run of mismanagement/staff harassment/plumbing problems. All three were within 5 minutes of my home or work. Now my best bet is a 15+ minute drive, and that just doesn't happen as often. And what's become clear in the absence of these theaters is that I just don't like watching movies at home, and especially don't like watching at home alone, for various attention span reasons. And god, I miss seeing all these movies.
Apologies if it’s above and I just can’t find it, but can someone link me to the article about Mattel/Barbie/IP Anne mentioned? I’m currently teaching the Barbie film in my IB English class and that article sounds like a great secondary source.
Can't believe I missed adding this to the show notes — it's so good! https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/07/10/after-barbie-mattel-is-raiding-its-entire-toybox