Don't knock the inner thigh patch until you try it! My favorite pair of jeans recently blew a hole in that dreaded zone. I was super disappointed because they were from a USA-made "slow fashion" company, made from an allegedly sturdy 100% cotton denim, and they had initially cost almost $250 and I had worn them for only a year. Although this hole seemed like quite the injustice given my hopes that these would be forever (or at least 5 year) jeans, I sucked up my ire and got them professionally mended at a local shop for a very reasonable price. The area was reinforced and I can't even tell that there's a patch there when I wear them!
since the pandemic, i have not once tried to wear jeans. and now, 4 years out of the practice, i NEVER need to try to wear them again! i feel liberated from jeans and i don't ever want to return.
Loved this ep! Particularly the part about the capitalist trap of the garment that will fix everything for you. It made me think about my approach to shopping in the last several years, how it’s very ‘personal style’ focused and intended to be less wasteful (ie I try to buy things that I’ll never tire of! That will last forever!). It’s funny to observe that intention, which on the surface seems a bit more ethical, through the lens of marketing/capitalism—I think in a lot of ways I just found a new way to try to answer to the self critical thoughts we’re socialized to believe about ourselves. And I know this ep was more body-focused, but I think another habit of the fashion industry is this insistance on buying the thing to fix all of our problems, then circling back to shame us for being wasteful spenders and consumers, so then they can sell us the more ‘ethical’ item that’s also a steal. I think that’s the cycle I am in, and it’s really not dissimilar from the cycle of trying to find the perfect pair of jeans to make my body look exactly how it ‘should’. I just struggled to put words to it until now, so your insights here were much appreciated!
I'm a millennial who also would have sold a kidney for cute Gap jeans in middle school but my parents would not shell out the money nor did they ever seem to fit me right (read: I wasn't a thin girl, like ever) and they were always too short for my long legs. I was excited to embrace wide leg and flared jeans again now in my late 30s-- but of course thought I needed a long inseam for my height. That felt off, and I realize the trend is ankle length but I can't get over my high-water pant trauma of middle school! They are supposed to sweep the floor or you look like a dorky mom! But now I am a mom and the "dorky" ankle length flare is in. I can't get there yet.
I dunno! I kind of think not. My kids (10 and 13) never wear any jeans or slacks. My son wears athletic pants and my daughter wears leggings. Highwater is never an issue for them.
It's super interesting to me how rocky the transition away from skinny jeans has been for so many millenials. I am right on the gen x/millennial cusp, and I refused to give up my flares until 2013. I stopped wearing pants to work and just wore skirts for a couple of years before I gave up and started wearing skinny jeans. In 2021 I saw that retailers had flares again and immediately bought some and abandoned my skinnies. I hem them so they cover the tops of my shoes (in flats) without touching the ground. I can wear whatever shoes I want with them, since you can't even see much of the shoe. AND they keep my ankles and the tops of my feet warmer.
I've thought about this so much. I think a lot of millennials who are slightly younger than me (Eldest Millennial) have never known anything in their adult life other than the skinny jean hegemony, so leaving them behind is like, I dunno, leaving diet culture behind? Not the perfect comparison but also intertwined! Skinny jeans made people in so many silhouettes with so many body types feel like they were appropriately regimenting their bodies, and the current moment feels like anarchy. If you'd lived though high school jeans anarchy (which I certainly had) this moment feels slightly more familiar. But I was in junior high and high school in the mid and late '90s; most millennials had to endure the early and mid 2000s, where skinny jeans felt like a reprieve (with very easy shoe choices) from the wild years of low rise ground skimmers.
How old you were pre-skinny jeans probably has something to do with it. I was a young professional in the early 2000s, so I wore wide leg pants as an adult and that's just situation normal. But those early 90s rigid mom jeans that everyone wore when I was in middle school brought up all kinds of things for me when they came back in style. I was so tall, and they were always too short for me (which was NOT in style in 1993) and always too snug in the hips and thighs. Maybe the jeans you wore in middle school will always have icky negative body associations?
I held onto my flares for a long time too! And then I went to skinny and refuse to change. They work with my tops and shoes. I also still do mid-rise because that’s the most comfortable and I think looks the best on me.
I'm honestly having trouble returning to jeans after over a decade of WFH plus pandemic. Also, I've had to start wearing compression leggings for my dysautonomia and they're super comfortable, so I'm mostly throwing on a t-shirt or a dress and calling it a day.
Perimenopause is part of this -- my body SHAPE has changed, not just my body size, and I'm also less tolerant of things that are uncomfortable. So much else in life is uncomfortable, why should my clothes be?!
I haven't worn jeans regularly since college. (I'm 50.) I basically wear workout clothes or sundresses (layered with leggings and sweaters in winter). I own a few pairs I have thrifted, because my husband likes how I look in them. I don't know or care if they're in style. I sat out skinny jeans entirely--hate 'em. I have dressed like this for decades. Sometimes, like a stopped clock that's right twice a day, I discover I'm on trend. I like creative and interesting clothes in fun colors and textures, and jeans are just boring to me.
I should also note that my entire wardrobe is from the Goodwill bins, where things are $2.19 a pound and there are no dressing rooms. I find shopping there really fun as well as cheap and environmentally responsible. The bins are my happy place. Sometimes I even find money in the pockets of stuff I've bought there!
I’m 45. I don’t care what kind of jeans you wear and I don’t care what you think about the jeans I wear. I like skinny jeans. So I’m going to wear them. I’m too old for this shit. Truly.
I loved this episode- and it is so interesting to hear the experiences of people younger than me. I am 65 and my first 7 years of school, we as girls literally could not wear pants to school. I remember the embarrassment I felt when i wore culottes to school and one of those horrible girls said she was going to tell on me because I was wearing shorts. It was an all in one culottes dress situation. Anyway, back to jeans. I was in that first wave of low rise bell bottoms, with the nasty raggedy- but oh so cool- bottoms. I SO appreciated the discussion about how jeans are “supposed” to look and all the detritus that goes with it.
I personally have a hard time with wide leg anything. I guess because I was in my formative years wearing tight fitting things. Not comfortable jeans, mind you, but it still looks wrong in my eyes.
In the last 10 years of my art teaching, I started using stitch fix and Dia and I have to say I have gotten some superb jeans from them. Stretch denim for the win. Stitch fix is doing better with their fit now. Dia has been successful for me. Most of the time.
I have a pair of jeans on from Stitch Fix atm, and referring to the discussion about the pathetic state of denim these days- these have really beefy denim. Compared to some of the others I got in a recent box. They are the brand Molly and Isadora.
I never see discussion of jeans from these clothing services- anyone else have good luck?
For the short-waisted person whose waist and hips are similar in measurement and don’t want thigh cling, etc - the STEVIE style from UNIVERSAL STANDARD. I love them, they go on sale regularly. They just came off a $64 sale, sadly, but keep your eyes peeled because they turn up every couple of months with big denim drives!
As someone who lives in the no man’s land between straight and plus size, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Stitch Fix jeans. The brands they send always have a decent amount of stretch, and have lasted me for years. And the best part is, it has rid me of the need to go to a store and try on jeans. I just try on the ones they send and they fit.
YES!! I live in a very rural area with not much clothing shopping available. To be able to try on at home is everything. The two everyday jeans I have are from about 2021 and I wear them all the time. They are just beginning to show signs of some wear.
I would love to see a little more nuance around “flattering” in future, similar episodes. I agree a lot of this comes down to thin-ideal, but not all of it. For example, gold vs silver jewelry— neither is better / worse (even though there are trends), but often one is more flattering than another on a given person.
I really value the discussion of unlearning thin=good, but just throwing the concept of flattering out the window doesn’t feel right either. Without a new mental model, I’m finding it harder to throw out the old one.
Finally caught up on the episode, and you all are so right that denim is a very emotionally loaded subject! For me - born in '83 - I wore straight legs, boots, flares, wide legs, and cargos when I was young (also: shout out to that AWFUL trend of ironing creases into your jeans??), but I never liked skinny jeans on myself even though every magazine said there was a cut for everybody and i never found it. Is it caving to diet culture if you find a cut you feel great in and stay there? My uniform is boot cuts/flares and an untucked but drapey, tunic-length button down - if I pivoted to a wide leg, I'd look sloppy. And I'm not rebuilding my whole wardrobe silhouette profile because somebody in marketing decided they wanted me to buy a different leg style. I'm good. Like Amanda Mull said, trends can be a younger woman's game.
I *do* spend money on my denim (though I definitely take advantage of clearance and closeout sales) - I wore the Hudson Drews until Hudson discontinued them, and now wear the Frame Le High Flares. The denim can vary, but it is thicker, has really good stretch recall, and doesn't wear out through the thighs for 2-3 years (I tried Paige for a while but they switched to a lighter weight fabric that could stretch out and wear through). I'm also tall (just over 5'10), so the extra length in the premium denim means it's actually long enough. Being tall *and* plus sized is tricky; the universal standard flare denim page won't tell me the inseam length, doesn't have a long size. Madewell tall sizes only go to a 33.
Don't knock the inner thigh patch until you try it! My favorite pair of jeans recently blew a hole in that dreaded zone. I was super disappointed because they were from a USA-made "slow fashion" company, made from an allegedly sturdy 100% cotton denim, and they had initially cost almost $250 and I had worn them for only a year. Although this hole seemed like quite the injustice given my hopes that these would be forever (or at least 5 year) jeans, I sucked up my ire and got them professionally mended at a local shop for a very reasonable price. The area was reinforced and I can't even tell that there's a patch there when I wear them!
since the pandemic, i have not once tried to wear jeans. and now, 4 years out of the practice, i NEVER need to try to wear them again! i feel liberated from jeans and i don't ever want to return.
Me too! I almost exclusively wear leggings now and it’s awesome. Thank you, pandemic, for that style choice.
Loved this ep! Particularly the part about the capitalist trap of the garment that will fix everything for you. It made me think about my approach to shopping in the last several years, how it’s very ‘personal style’ focused and intended to be less wasteful (ie I try to buy things that I’ll never tire of! That will last forever!). It’s funny to observe that intention, which on the surface seems a bit more ethical, through the lens of marketing/capitalism—I think in a lot of ways I just found a new way to try to answer to the self critical thoughts we’re socialized to believe about ourselves. And I know this ep was more body-focused, but I think another habit of the fashion industry is this insistance on buying the thing to fix all of our problems, then circling back to shame us for being wasteful spenders and consumers, so then they can sell us the more ‘ethical’ item that’s also a steal. I think that’s the cycle I am in, and it’s really not dissimilar from the cycle of trying to find the perfect pair of jeans to make my body look exactly how it ‘should’. I just struggled to put words to it until now, so your insights here were much appreciated!
I'm a millennial who also would have sold a kidney for cute Gap jeans in middle school but my parents would not shell out the money nor did they ever seem to fit me right (read: I wasn't a thin girl, like ever) and they were always too short for my long legs. I was excited to embrace wide leg and flared jeans again now in my late 30s-- but of course thought I needed a long inseam for my height. That felt off, and I realize the trend is ankle length but I can't get over my high-water pant trauma of middle school! They are supposed to sweep the floor or you look like a dorky mom! But now I am a mom and the "dorky" ankle length flare is in. I can't get there yet.
"High Water Pant Trauma" is *so real* — do kids have that these days? I feel like no????
capris are right around the corner, waiting in the wings for their next set of short legged victims.
I dunno! I kind of think not. My kids (10 and 13) never wear any jeans or slacks. My son wears athletic pants and my daughter wears leggings. Highwater is never an issue for them.
It's super interesting to me how rocky the transition away from skinny jeans has been for so many millenials. I am right on the gen x/millennial cusp, and I refused to give up my flares until 2013. I stopped wearing pants to work and just wore skirts for a couple of years before I gave up and started wearing skinny jeans. In 2021 I saw that retailers had flares again and immediately bought some and abandoned my skinnies. I hem them so they cover the tops of my shoes (in flats) without touching the ground. I can wear whatever shoes I want with them, since you can't even see much of the shoe. AND they keep my ankles and the tops of my feet warmer.
I've thought about this so much. I think a lot of millennials who are slightly younger than me (Eldest Millennial) have never known anything in their adult life other than the skinny jean hegemony, so leaving them behind is like, I dunno, leaving diet culture behind? Not the perfect comparison but also intertwined! Skinny jeans made people in so many silhouettes with so many body types feel like they were appropriately regimenting their bodies, and the current moment feels like anarchy. If you'd lived though high school jeans anarchy (which I certainly had) this moment feels slightly more familiar. But I was in junior high and high school in the mid and late '90s; most millennials had to endure the early and mid 2000s, where skinny jeans felt like a reprieve (with very easy shoe choices) from the wild years of low rise ground skimmers.
How old you were pre-skinny jeans probably has something to do with it. I was a young professional in the early 2000s, so I wore wide leg pants as an adult and that's just situation normal. But those early 90s rigid mom jeans that everyone wore when I was in middle school brought up all kinds of things for me when they came back in style. I was so tall, and they were always too short for me (which was NOT in style in 1993) and always too snug in the hips and thighs. Maybe the jeans you wore in middle school will always have icky negative body associations?
I held onto my flares for a long time too! And then I went to skinny and refuse to change. They work with my tops and shoes. I also still do mid-rise because that’s the most comfortable and I think looks the best on me.
I'm honestly having trouble returning to jeans after over a decade of WFH plus pandemic. Also, I've had to start wearing compression leggings for my dysautonomia and they're super comfortable, so I'm mostly throwing on a t-shirt or a dress and calling it a day.
Perimenopause is part of this -- my body SHAPE has changed, not just my body size, and I'm also less tolerant of things that are uncomfortable. So much else in life is uncomfortable, why should my clothes be?!
I haven't worn jeans regularly since college. (I'm 50.) I basically wear workout clothes or sundresses (layered with leggings and sweaters in winter). I own a few pairs I have thrifted, because my husband likes how I look in them. I don't know or care if they're in style. I sat out skinny jeans entirely--hate 'em. I have dressed like this for decades. Sometimes, like a stopped clock that's right twice a day, I discover I'm on trend. I like creative and interesting clothes in fun colors and textures, and jeans are just boring to me.
I should also note that my entire wardrobe is from the Goodwill bins, where things are $2.19 a pound and there are no dressing rooms. I find shopping there really fun as well as cheap and environmentally responsible. The bins are my happy place. Sometimes I even find money in the pockets of stuff I've bought there!
What we really need are the jeans Tibby, Lena, Bridget and Carmen found!
I’m 45. I don’t care what kind of jeans you wear and I don’t care what you think about the jeans I wear. I like skinny jeans. So I’m going to wear them. I’m too old for this shit. Truly.
(By “you” I mean just anyone. I realize that might’ve come off more aggressively than intended 😂)
I loved this episode- and it is so interesting to hear the experiences of people younger than me. I am 65 and my first 7 years of school, we as girls literally could not wear pants to school. I remember the embarrassment I felt when i wore culottes to school and one of those horrible girls said she was going to tell on me because I was wearing shorts. It was an all in one culottes dress situation. Anyway, back to jeans. I was in that first wave of low rise bell bottoms, with the nasty raggedy- but oh so cool- bottoms. I SO appreciated the discussion about how jeans are “supposed” to look and all the detritus that goes with it.
I personally have a hard time with wide leg anything. I guess because I was in my formative years wearing tight fitting things. Not comfortable jeans, mind you, but it still looks wrong in my eyes.
In the last 10 years of my art teaching, I started using stitch fix and Dia and I have to say I have gotten some superb jeans from them. Stretch denim for the win. Stitch fix is doing better with their fit now. Dia has been successful for me. Most of the time.
I have a pair of jeans on from Stitch Fix atm, and referring to the discussion about the pathetic state of denim these days- these have really beefy denim. Compared to some of the others I got in a recent box. They are the brand Molly and Isadora.
I never see discussion of jeans from these clothing services- anyone else have good luck?
Came here to sing the praises of Stitch fix jeans
For the short-waisted person whose waist and hips are similar in measurement and don’t want thigh cling, etc - the STEVIE style from UNIVERSAL STANDARD. I love them, they go on sale regularly. They just came off a $64 sale, sadly, but keep your eyes peeled because they turn up every couple of months with big denim drives!
As someone who lives in the no man’s land between straight and plus size, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Stitch Fix jeans. The brands they send always have a decent amount of stretch, and have lasted me for years. And the best part is, it has rid me of the need to go to a store and try on jeans. I just try on the ones they send and they fit.
YES!! I live in a very rural area with not much clothing shopping available. To be able to try on at home is everything. The two everyday jeans I have are from about 2021 and I wear them all the time. They are just beginning to show signs of some wear.
I would love to see a little more nuance around “flattering” in future, similar episodes. I agree a lot of this comes down to thin-ideal, but not all of it. For example, gold vs silver jewelry— neither is better / worse (even though there are trends), but often one is more flattering than another on a given person.
I really value the discussion of unlearning thin=good, but just throwing the concept of flattering out the window doesn’t feel right either. Without a new mental model, I’m finding it harder to throw out the old one.
Finally caught up on the episode, and you all are so right that denim is a very emotionally loaded subject! For me - born in '83 - I wore straight legs, boots, flares, wide legs, and cargos when I was young (also: shout out to that AWFUL trend of ironing creases into your jeans??), but I never liked skinny jeans on myself even though every magazine said there was a cut for everybody and i never found it. Is it caving to diet culture if you find a cut you feel great in and stay there? My uniform is boot cuts/flares and an untucked but drapey, tunic-length button down - if I pivoted to a wide leg, I'd look sloppy. And I'm not rebuilding my whole wardrobe silhouette profile because somebody in marketing decided they wanted me to buy a different leg style. I'm good. Like Amanda Mull said, trends can be a younger woman's game.
I *do* spend money on my denim (though I definitely take advantage of clearance and closeout sales) - I wore the Hudson Drews until Hudson discontinued them, and now wear the Frame Le High Flares. The denim can vary, but it is thicker, has really good stretch recall, and doesn't wear out through the thighs for 2-3 years (I tried Paige for a while but they switched to a lighter weight fabric that could stretch out and wear through). I'm also tall (just over 5'10), so the extra length in the premium denim means it's actually long enough. Being tall *and* plus sized is tricky; the universal standard flare denim page won't tell me the inseam length, doesn't have a long size. Madewell tall sizes only go to a 33.
I love Lands End for jeans! Surprisingly cute and also solid.